Stomp and Stammer 1996

Epic Soundtracks. by Jeff Clark
reprinted with kind permission
courtesy of Stomp and Stammer

When you give yourself the name Epic Soundtracks you’d better be able to live up to it — and be able to put up with the constant double-takes, inquiries, and snickers. At 37, after a long service of playing sideman or collaborator with an eclectic array of visceral musicians, the Englishman born Paul Godley (he took his pseudonym upon joining his first band, as a nod to the Iggy Pops and Alice Coopers of the world) is finally doing just that — on his own terms. The three solo albums he’s issued are beautifully perfect packages of pure pop songwriting, his wistful voice hauntingly accenting the melancholia of the mostly piano-based ‘epic soundtracks.’ In the tradition of Brian Wilson, Carole King, Harry Nilsson, or early Todd Rundgren, the albums are the work of a romantic craftsman stubbornly ignoring the trends of the day in favor of deeper, more lasting territory.

Unbelievably, this is Epic’s 25th year as a musician. Starting as a drummer, he formed his first band, the random avant-garage quartet Swell Maps, with his brother Nikki Sudden (who continues to record and perform), Jowe Head (later of Television Personalities), and Richard Earl, when he was only 12. The Maps would eventually issue a series of perplexing albums in the late 1970s and early 1980s that would find fans in such budding young musicians as J Mascis and members of Sonic Youth (who later played on Epic’s first solo album.) After that band petered out, Epic went on to play drums with Sudden in the Jacobites, and later with Crime and the City Solution and These Immortal Souls. He’s been on albums by Red Krayola and Mike Watt, and has toured with Evan Dando.

Following 1992’s Rise Above and 1994’s Sleeping Star (last year’s Debris is an odds-and-sods-type affair), his new solo album Change My Life finds Epic (on piano, organ, drums and vocals) rockin’ out a wee bit more (backing musicians include Thee Hypnotics’ Will Pepper and Plush’s Russ Bassman), but basically finds him steadfast in his conviction to traditional songwriting ideals, and thank God for such idealists. Every one of his albums is an instant classic, at turns romantic and heartbreaking. When I reach him at home in London, he’s a little heartbroken himself, still steaming over an immigration problem that caused the cancellation of his planned summer US tour. Still, he’s being cheered up by listening to, of all things, the new Black Crowes album…

Epic Soundtracks: “I only got it yesterday. I really liked their last album, a lot. I think they’ve kinda got a good grasp on dynamics, and their arrangements I like, they’re melodic, and powerful in the right places. You know, it’s not that much like what I do, but I think they’re very good at what they do. There’s a lot of people that don’t like them, but I think they’re good at what they do. I’ve seen ‘em a couple of times, and they’re excellent.”

Stomp and Stammer: Do you try to keep up with new music?

“Well, I don’t really try and keep up with what’s happening, because I figure if something I’d really like is out there, I’m gonna find out about it sooner or later. I don’t read the music press very much. I mean, I may read one or two things, but I don’t get the British weeklies or anything. I never read them, ever. I’m not interested in any of those groups. They’re terrible, really. I mean, I just hear it walking down the street, and I don’t like it. There’s a few things around I like these days, but on the whole not very much at all, really.”

What happened with you not getting into the US for your tour?

“I don’t know whether I want too much printed about it, really. I mean, there’s nothing sinister or anything at all, I just, I was just coming over to do one gig somewhere in Chicago, and it was just basically an afterthought. I was just gonna go for a holiday to stay with a friend of mine for a few weeks. And I just arranged this one show, seems as I was gonna be around, and I didn’t have a work permit and all that, and then I got turned back. And then, or course, because of that I couldn’t come this time. After the whole tour got arranged.”

So you didn’t even play the Chicago show, and they still wouldn’t let you back in?

“No. They’re really cracking down, and I didn’t realize the extent. I was really disappointed for me and my band, and for all the people that wanted to see me, that I couldn’t do this tour. And of course, having a new album out and not being able to play, it was really depressing…They basically don’t let you go back in for at least a year, so I’m just gonna hope I can go back next year and play…I just hope people don’t forget I exist. ‘Cause you feel that you lose a lot of momentum in what you’re doing when something like that happens.”

But you’re able to tour Europe, right?

“Yeah, I’m arranging a tour for October and November, so I’m gonna get my band over and do that. I’m gonna do a tour of my own, but I might do a few dates with the Lemonheads, ’cause Evan’s sort of got everything back together now, and he’s gonna be playing. I’ve got a song that I wrote with him on the new Lemonheads album, which is coming out soon. It’s called ‘Come On, Daddy.’”

Do you play on it?

“No, I don’t, ’cause I couldn’t [enter the US]…If I had done that tour I’d have felt much better now, having done it and come back, and feeling like I’d achieved a bit more…It really screwed up my life. I’ve gotten over the worst bit now, but it was really bad when it happened. I couldn’t believe it could happen. I just kept going. It’s very difficult if you’re doing something that’s against the grain, I don’t sit around trying to fit what I do in with anybody else, or the current scene.”

Are you more widely known in Europe than in the States?

“It’s really about the same. There’s kind of a ‘cult’ level of people that appear in these towns, and, I mean, it’s kind of a small thing, but we always have really good shows, and it seems to build a bit each time. But it would have been the first time I’d toured [the US] with a really good band. It’s changed since the last time, it’s a much better band now.”

There seems to be a little bit more rock ‘n’ roll on the new album.

“I don’t know, there’s things on the other ones that are like that, too, but yeah, there’s a bit more. A lot of it is a question of who’s around, and if things work out, and you’ve got enough time and money to spend on something. We had a little bit more money this time. A little bit, not a great deal, but we could try things that we didn’t have time for and couldn’t afford to do last time. One thing I’ve always wanted to do is have a good balance between more melodic…well, I think they’re all melodic, but in different ways, but I’ve always wanted to do more rocking things. I’m into a lot of music. I wanted to do stuff that grooved, and had a good R&B feel to it, which, a lot of modern bands aren’t coming from a thing like that, you know, it’s more the ‘new wave’ kind of thing. If you listen to my stuff you’ll hear sort of echoes of different things. Kind of a Phil Spector kind of thing, or an R&B kind of riff.”

I liked the chapter you wrote in Alt-Rock-A-Rama, where you talked about your favorite songs. You wrote something about how when you were growing up people seemed to either be into heavy, serious stuff, or they were into bubblegum. And you kind of liked both. You said you liked the Carpenters...

“Well, yeah, I always did, you see, and it’s kind of a trendy thing to like the Carpenters now, which, I mean, I think it’s good that people have come around to thinking that the Carpenters are good. Karen Carpenter had an incredible voice, I think, but what troubles me is a lot of people seem to like it because they think it’s kitschy, but I don’t really think in those terms. I don’t like something because I think it’s kitschy, I like something because I think it’s good, you know. So, no, I just always found her voice incredibly powerful and moving, and when you’ve got such songs, you know, doing their own stuff and also Burt Bacharach and stuff. I always liked it at the time, I never used to think like, ‘Oh, I shouldn’t like this.’ I think when you’re an early teenager you’re very swayed by peer pressure, and I remember at that time I liked things like that, and I also liked T Rex and Led Zeppelin. I remember when the whole punk thing happened, I remember it very clearly. I really liked the Sex Pistols, a lot, but I think most of the stuff that came after that in this country was just bad, really, most of it. I think the Pistols were like, a great rock ‘n’ roll band. I don’t think the others were good enough, really, to my ears. And there’s not been a great deal in this country since then that I’ve liked that much, really.”

Have you seen any of the Sex Pistols reunion shows?

“Oh, yeah, I saw them last month, twice. You should [see them.] What I’ve found is, a lot of people, when they talk about it, all they talk about is their theory of whether they think they should reform. And,you know, it’s up to them. You have a life of your own, and if you wanna play music again, you better do it. You can’t sit around thinking, ‘Oh, I’m not gonna do this, because people don’t want me to.’ One of the things about that band was, they were really good, they could really play. It’s all crap, all that stuff about how they couldn’t play. ‘Cause they could, you see, and I think that’s what makes ‘em different from a lot of punk band, they could actually play well, and with a lot of style. I think what makes the Pistols different is, they were never really a punk band, they were just a rock ‘n’ roll band. The lyrics were different, but they weren’t’ just hundred mile an hour thrash. They’re actually quite slow. But I think because of that it ’s really powerful, ’cause it doesn’t just run away with itself, and I think there’s this danger in a lot of punk and new wave music, that it just got too fast, and it just turned into a blur of sound, and they kept it really solid, and they were really like the last great British rock n roll band. I don’t think there’s been one since. Whatever people think about ‘em reforming, I think they really want to show people that ‘Yeah, we really were, are, a great rock n roll band, and there’s not many of those around.’”

What are your feelings about the bands you’ve been in?

“Uh, well, (laughs), my first band (Swell Maps,) I still think there’s some really good things there that we did, but I find some of it embarrassing to listen to. But I think the good stuff makes the whole thing worthwhile. I tend to like the instrumental things we did. But you’ve got to remember, it was four kids that were teenagers, basically. We all grew up together.”

You were 12 when it started. For kids that young to be making music that ‘out there’ is impressive in itself.

“Yeah. A lot of it was kind of hit-or-miss, but we did some things that did sound good. It was a long time ago. Some people hear what I’m doing now and they go, ‘How could he do this having done that?’ But, to me, it all makes sense.”

Well, that’s what I was talking about when I mentioned what you wrote in the book. People might assume with your first solo album that you suddenly discovered piano-based singer/songwriter music, when in fact you’ve been an admirer of it all along.

“I have, I just never was good enough at singing or actually constructing a song before. There was a point around 1991 when I really started writing a lot of songs, more so than I had. But I’ve written music. And if you listen to Swell Maps records, there’s pieces of piano music that kind of appear occasionally. I just got better at constructing actual songs. And I got to a point where I was happy with what I was doing…I can see the links, but I think a lot of people think of the Swell Maps as a really experimental band, but if you listen to any of those records, there’s some experimental pieces, or whatever you wanna call them, I don’t like that word experimental. More improvised things, and strange noises and so on, but there WAS thought to the way it was done, but there were also straightforward kind of poppy songs, and it was thrown in this great bit sort of pot where there was a lot of different kind of things going on. But you know, there were four people in that band that were all into different things. Now it’s me that’s in charge, but I still feel like there’s a sort of experimental element in there somewhere. If you listen to some of the songs like ‘Sleepy City’ on the new album, it’s a pretty strange song. It’s just that I’m very much into structuring songs these days.”

Well, so few people seem to put much care into it these days, it’s almost making a radical statement to even attempt it.

“To be honest, I think the art of songwriting, as such, isn’t as important as it should be these days, and I think that’s a real shame. Because I really respect great songwriters from the past, and that’s what I try and do. But I think that kind of thing went out quite a time ago, really. But having said that, about wanting to structure songs, it can be any kind of songs, ’cause there’s a song like ‘Landslide’ on the new album which is really raw, and it’s good a good groove to it, it’s a pretty edgy number, but I still spent time on the structure of the thing. It doesn’t just start and then go on this kind of new wave kind of thing and then go away again, like a lot of music I hear, that just seems to go in a straight line and doesn’t do anything, really. I try and get tension and dynamics in there. But there’s a lot of music that I don’t care for these days, but I’m not putting those people down if they wanna do that, but it’s not what I wanna hear, that kind of Smashing Pumpkins kind of thing. I don’t understand this music, I can’t connect to it in any emotional way, or not even any kind of physical way. It leaves me cold.”

You talked about Swell Maps, but what about some of the other bands you’ve been in, Crime & the City Solution, These Immortal Souls…

“Well, I like some of the Jacobites stuff a lot, which I had quite a bit to do with at certain stages. I don’t know, Crime & The City Solution and These Immortal Souls, I just find it very difficult to listen to. It’s very heavy going. I think there’s good things going on there, but I can’t really take the vocals…I just got to this stage where I was in bands and I was thinking, ‘Well, I prefer how I’m singing to the way other people are singing, so it kind of got ridiculous to just be the drummer. I don’t see those things as being the best things I’ve done, at all.”

Drummers tend to get ignored, also, don’t you think?

“A little bit. I did write some music in those bands, but a lot of people don’t realize it. I’m just glad I’m doing this now. I feel like I’m doing the best stuff now, in my life. And I guess that’s a good place to be at when you’ve been doing it a long time.”

What about the album Debris? It’s a hodgepodge thing, right?

“Right. What happened, that’s not really a proper album, but you can kind of guess from the title, it’s kind of outtakes and rare stuff, stuff from radio sessions, and stuff going back to 1981, there’s a couple of B-sides from a solo single I put out then. I did one single then…I got together a bunch of stuff which I liked but I never seemed to have a place, and then put it together on that. So, it’s not a proper album, but it’s sort of a compliment to the other ones. I was hoping to bring it over and sell it on the tour, but, um…people can get it mail-order.”

I didn’t know you had put out a single in the early ’80s. What was that like?

“If you listen to ‘Sleepy City’ on the new album, it’s actually the same piece of music, but I re-wrote it with much better words this time, I think. Yeah, I did a single, and it was on Rough Trade, and I did sing on it, but actually Robert Wyatt does the lead vocals. It’s kind of ridiculous, I should have sang. I was never confident in my voice, you know, it took a long time for me to come around to actually wanting to sing, but that’s why I redid it, ’cause I always liked the piece of music.”

What are some other songwriters you admire?

“I guess my favorite songwriter would be Brian Wilson. Yeah, you know, also John Lennon, Alex Chilton, a lot of people, really. Mostly Brian.”

The colors and style of lettering on the cover your first album is exactly like Pet Sounds. A deliberate tribute?

(laughs) “Yeah, it’s kind of a bit of a tribute there. Just a kind of subtle one. I liked those letters. People notice. They might have the album a year or two, and then go, ‘That looks familiar.’ Quite a few people have commented on it…A lot of the people I admire are people who stuck to what they wanted to do. Obviously Alex Chilton, people that have changed a lot over the years but they still sort of have this thing which has been in it. They haven’t changed what they do to go along with any current trends or anything. It’s a stupid thing to do, it’s not going to work out in the long run, anyway. I’m just trying to build a body of work which I can look back and think, ‘Yeah, that’s what I wanted to do, and I did it.’”